Can You Veganise Your Partner? An Honest Conversation With My Husband

"It's nice that you're going vegan, but I could never do it."

It all started with a bug. Some kind of cockroach. Or was it a small spider? It was almost seventeen years ago, so I can’t really recall. What I remember is David, whom I’d only been dating for a couple of weeks, carefully picking up the little creature and placing him or her on the grass outside.

“For me, it’s just a few seconds,” he said. “For him, it’s his whole life.”

Thinking of past boyfriends, who would always resort to lethal violence when it came to unwanted little critters indoors, I felt my heart beat a little faster. Now, as we celebrate a decade as a married couple, I like to refer to that day as the moment I knew David was The One. At that stage, I was pescatarian (although I referred to myself as a vegetarian, quite proudly, too) and although I’d heard of vegans, I never imagined I could become one. I was, however, keen on taking David along the meat-free path with me, so I frequently appealed to this tenderness within him, that same sense of compassion that he had shown to the insect.

Fast forward a few years into our relationship, I remember announcing to David that I was serious about going vegan in 2012 (my own vegan journey is a story for a whole different post!). We were standing at a bus stop in rainy London, on our way home after a volunteer event with PETA, where I would later end up working. I’d been transitioning to veganism for months, but now I was ready to fully commit.

“That’s nice that you are doing this,” was his response. “I could never go vegan. Maybe vegetarian. But never vegan.”

Today, David has been vegan for seven and a half years. How did I do it, my coupled-up vegan friends ask me. What was my secret? Is it even possible to convince your partner to go vegan?

This is a topic that regularly comes up in the vegan community, which is why my first-ever interview guest here on Kind of Wild is my own husband, David Camilli. David is a guitarist and music teacher from Milan, who currently lives in Brighton (with me!). He enjoys Japanese martial arts, surfing, and obsessively working on his motorbike. We made ourselves some extra strong oat-milk macchiatos and had a long chat about veganism, relationships, and…pizza.

In Los Angeles - one of our favourite trips together. We enjoyed some amazing vegan food!

Me: David, what was your idea of vegetarians and vegans before we met?

David: I didn’t know many of them when I was young, but I had a good friend who was a vegetarian. He had tried to convince me, but despite agreeing with the ethics of it, I was under the misguided impression that humans needed meat to thrive. I did care, I didn’t want animals to suffer, but I was only doing what I thought was right for my health.

I also admit that I did see vegans as a bit extreme. My thinking was that doing your bit to spare animal suffering was great, but why take it to the extent of not even eating eggs and dairy? That just seemed like an exaggeration. Of course this was before I had all the information.

Me: What did you think when I first told you that I didn’t eat meat?

David: Well, my reaction was that I admired you for putting your own health and well-being on the line for the animals - but I also instinctively thought that it wasn’t something I’d ever do.

Me: But you already weren’t eating lamb or veal. Or pork.

David: Pork I mainly wasn’t eating because I didn’t like the taste. But with veal and lamb, it was because they were so young. My reasoning was, “okay, we need meat to be healthy. But do we have to eat babies?” It seemed unnecessarily cruel, you know?

Me: We both later learned that most animals who are eaten by humans are indeed very young. But going back to your journey - when we moved to London together and you met vegans, did your view of them change?

David: Yes. I learned that they weren’t all freaks! (laughs) I realised that these people weren’t necessarily hardcore extremists, or on the contrary, they weren’t just following a fad. There are people like this in the movement, of course, but many vegans I met were just like others I knew. They were just trying their best to make a positive change in the world. Vegans - they’re people, just like us!

Pumpkin picking - like hunting, but for vegans

Me: Funnily enough, your vegetarian friend was the one who gave me the book that inspired me to go vegan, Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer. When I did go vegan, what changed in our relationship? Both on a practical level and more of an emotional or ideological one?

David: I thought you were crazy! (laughs) As I said, as much as I admired the ethics behind it, I thought veganism was going overboard. I was hesitant to take the step myself - I was still clinging on to the idea of producing eggs ethically.

On a practical level, as I was the main cook in the family, having to make vegan dishes opened up my views to lots of new ingredients. Or, not really new, but ones I hadn’t used in a long time, like beans and pulses. I realised that it’s the creativity that you put into the process that really makes the dish, rather than just the raw ingredients. All those spices - turmeric, cumin - that was a brand new world. And tofu? I was never a fan, because like most people I thought it didn’t taste like anything. But once I learned to season it, it was a whole different story.

David at FRIEND animal sanctuary, hanging with some cows

Me: So what was keeping you from fully taking the step?

David: I was mostly vegan for a long time, but I didn’t want the label “vegan”. I admit that this is because I didn’t want to be seen as strange or different. But also because if I slipped up and ate something that contained egg or milk or something, I didn’t want people to be disappointed in me.

Me: By “people”, do you mean me?

David: haha, yes. But actually, you know, I was vegan in practice for a long time before labelling myself as one. My thought was “it’s not that I am vegan, I just want to do the right thing.” But then when I aligned my words with my actions, I saw that my values were indeed vegan values. And if I didn’t live in a way that was in line with those values, then I wasn’t being my own idea of a good person. So that’s when I started calling myself vegan.

This is not to say that I think those who eat meat are bad people. They’re not. It was just that with the information I had learned, for me personally, this was the only way that made sense.

Veganism to me is about doing our best when we can to limit the suffering in the world.

Veganism to me is, today, not about accusing others or being rigidly purist, but about doing our best when we can to limit the suffering in the world. It’s the whole definition of veganism, isn’t it? And it doesn’t have to be just about food. It can be about clothing, things we use, or not killing an insect but taking them outside instead.

Devouring the vegan cake at our wedding

Me: What reactions did you get once you went vegan? I’m thinking mostly of your family.

David: The usual stuff: “be careful, you’ll get sick.” Or: “this is how the world works, animals eat each other.” But slowly, their attitude started shifting. My father had told me, years prior, about a pig he used to know when he was a boy, living in the countryside. The pig would follow him around like a puppy. My dad realised that animals were sentient. But like most other people, he too believed that we needed to eat them to survive.

Me: I remember one time we came to visit and no one in your house was eating meat. When I asked you about this, you said you’d asked your family to cook meat-free while you were visiting. What was that about?

David: Yeah, they were very respectful about that. They realised that it wouldn’t kill them not to eat meat for four days. I wouldn’t do what some vegans do, which is refuse to sit at a table where animal products are eaten. I believe that finger-pointing does more harm than good. But on that occasion, I wanted to show that if they changed their habits for a few days, it would be easier than they think.

Today, my brother is nearly vegan. For health reasons, he shifted his diet and now eats fish but has cut out pretty much all other animal-derived products. My mum mainly eats plant-based as well.

As for my dad, when he was still alive, I came across him one day making tofu for himself. As my family would only buy tofu and that kind of stuff when you and I came over, I was surprised! But he said it tasted great “with the right seasoning.”

David and his new friend, Avo the pig, at FRIEND animal sanctuary

Me: what were your biggest challenges at the start?

David: I’m Italian, so pizza of course. There wasn’t much vegan cheese around, so I was actually ready to give up cheese. But then we went to Purezza, the UK’s first vegan pizzeria…and I had a Diavola, my all-time favourite pizza, with vegan cheese and vegan spicy salami. I remember that my reaction was “wow, so I don’t have to give anything up?” It felt like a reward for my willingness to sacrifice! Burgers also got better - vegan meats like Beyond Meat and Moving Mountains meant that we were moving from those awful things with bits of peas and carrots to me now almost worrying that it might actually be meat, that’s how similar it is! 3D-printed meat is great, too. One thing that still needs work? Mozzarella.

Me: A few years ago you broke your leg while doing those awful jumps on your skateboard, and ended up in hospital. How was your vegan experience there?

David: It was great! My food was so much tastier than everyone else’s. The other patients would comment on it, and I said that they could order it too. They said, “but I’m not vegan.” But the thing is, you don’t have to be vegan to eat vegan food. Every time we choose a vegan option, it helps the animals. No one is perfect and we are all harming the planet, so gatekeeping is unhelpful. If you ask someone if they want a banana, they say yes, but if you say it’s vegan then “oh no, I’m not vegan, thank you!” Bananas are for everyone! And if you explore your own world - the clothing you wear, the food you eat, the philosophies you believe in - you will find that a lot of it is vegan already.

Me: What do you think I did right when trying to veganise you, and what could I have done better?

David: You shared the right information with me and you didn’t push me. You also showed me all the amazing plant-based food options, which was definitely helpful! And you were not judgemental.

Me: I was also trying to convince you to quit smoking when we first met. I was definitely judgemental and pushy on that one! I remember you saying “yes, you are right, but I just don’t want to quit.” I think here, the difference is that eating animal products actually harms others, not just yourself?

David: Exactly. Smoking only harmed myself - and I did quit in the end, it was absurd that I was justifying my meat-eating with health while still smoking! Of course, when I first started thinking about approaching veganism, I had quit already. Eating animals caused harm to others. And once I realised that, I didn’t want to take part in it.

Me: What would you say to someone who wants to convince their partner to go vegan?

David: Be patient. If they don’t make the connection straight away, you might still have planted the seed. Some time might pass and they will think, “why am I fighting this? I am against cruelty to animals. These are my values. I just need to act in line with them.” Also, don’t accuse them of not caring about animals. They do - they just don’t think it’s possible for them. So help them see that it is. And cook them good food!

To people thinking of making the change, I’d like to say this: we are committing the worst atrocities, the most disgustingly horrible acts, that we wouldn’t wish on our worst enemies, to the most innocent of beings. They did nothing to deserve this. Any change you can take to minimise this harm, do it. And yes, if some things don’t taste exactly the same, weigh that up against the magnitude of this harm. Okay, that vegan cheese might taste slightly different. But it’s a tiny difference, compared to all that horror and suffering. Think about it.

Three tips

I ask my interview guests for three things they would recommend to Kind of Wild readers - it can be anything at all, connected to veganism or not. Only rule: it can’t be their own products, so David was unable to recommend his own music (but I can recommend it!)

• Be curious and say yes. If you get an invitation to try something new, take the chance. Even if you’re tired and lazy. You can chill on the sofa with YouTube later.

• Go to Purezza. Have the best pizza of your life. Thank me later.

• Buy a surfboard. Trust me on this one. Even if you suck at surfing - especially then. It will be worth it when your partner can enjoy watching you playing and having fun like when you were a child, with that light back in your eyes. Surfing is magic.

If you are in Brighton, come and see David as a regular in-house performer at Foodilic in Western Road on either Fridays or Saturdays at 7pm. He will also perform at Bristol Vegan Fayre on 24th August.